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Interviews

2020 Questioning all Sentient Beings

---- A Dialogue with Life, A Coexistence with the Future

In one's lifetime, they will inevitably experience various joys and sorrows, partings and reunions, and face sudden challenges and setbacks. Particularly when adversity strikes unexpectedly, it catches us off guard, leaving us disoriented. How do we cope with unforeseen sorrow and stress? How do we face it with equanimity? Caixin Health invites artists, philanthropists, psychologists, and people from various fields to discuss their perspectives on life, mental release, and personal coping strategies in the face of the global COVID-19 pandemic. Through personal experiences and observations, we aim to connect with each other, gain insights into life, and face the unknown with a positive outlook.
[Theater Director: Cao Kefei]
Cao Kefei, a Chinese theater director, lives and works in Beijing and Berlin, Germany. She has directed a series of interdisciplinary theater productions in China and German-speaking countries, organized numerous international theater exchange projects, and been involved in scriptwriting and translation between Chinese and German. Over the years, she has been dedicated to promoting theater exchange between China and German-speaking countries, aiming to foster the diversity of theater. She believes that "a truly impactful and moving theatrical work may not necessarily be pleasing to the audience. On the contrary, it raises questions, allows various viewpoints to collide, makes people uneasy, and makes them realize their limitations while releasing the energy of collision. Therefore, the theater is an experimental and energetic field for our emotions, thoughts, actions, and attempts to change reality."
-------Editor


Tonight, there are no stars, no wind or rain,
Darkness, like any night of any year.
Was the great elegy of the last century written on a night like this?
Tonight, I don't want to think about such significant human matters
(Every time I do, God laughs, even though I'm still an atheist to this day)
I don't want to think about the recent shooting in a small German town,
Even though my daughter's tears left me unsettled for a long time.
But tonight, I don't want to hope for the trumpet call of the goddess of revenge,
And I don't care if the sun rises as usual tomorrow.
Tonight, I can only stay quietly like this.
---Excerpt from "Tonight"

Distress and Energy
"Questioning All Sentient Beings": The COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 disrupted our previous way of life and work. How did it affect your work and life during this period?
Cao Kefei: I experienced the outbreak of two pandemics this time. I was in China from late January to late February, and then I returned to Berlin. I am currently still in a state of isolation. There has been a lot of online communication. In Berlin, the performance group I participate in meets twice a week in the park for discussions, training, and rehearsals. However, according to government regulations, each meeting cannot have more than three people.
In Germany, measures are taken in stages based on the severity of the pandemic. At the beginning, experts explained various knowledge about the novel coronavirus, and daily updates and consultations were provided to the public. The information was very transparent. As the situation worsened, the government implemented stricter isolation measures, such as initially canceling events with over 500 people, which later became gatherings of over 200 people. When the situation became extremely severe, especially with a dramatic increase in deaths in Italy, Germany issued orders to close all schools and theaters, and all gatherings were suspended. At the same time, the government warned young people not to gather and to protect the elderly. They explained that if young people were heavily infected, they would occupy hospital beds, potentially causing the healthcare system to collapse. In other words, the government issued calls from the perspective of considering others and taking defensive measures for the sake of others.
I was also deeply impressed by the fact that the government immediately introduced financial assistance policies for freelancers and some small businesses, including me. Although I live in Berlin, I am not a German citizen, but surprisingly, I received funds the day after applying. The government is constantly considering how to make people feel secure and help everyone get through this difficult time.
"Questioning All Sentient Beings": Does the current work and life situation bring you any troubles?
Cao Kefei: Currently, I work more online, but I still hope for direct contact between people. During the strictest period of isolation, I would call one or two close friends. This period of time has also provided enjoyment in reading books and watching movies, with more time to appreciate certain things.
There is another form of isolation, self-isolation, where I don't enter other people's worlds; I isolate myself. The script for "Fireface," a play by the famous German playwright Dea Loher, is based on a true story. It tells the story of a teenage boy who cannot communicate with his parents at all. When his sister, who was the only person he was close to, gets a boyfriend, the boy completely isolates himself from the world. He stops going out and spends his days conducting various chemical experiments in his room. Later, he sets fire to his school classroom and a church. Finally, his parents have to take him to the police station. In the middle of the night, he kills them, sets the house on fire, and burns himself. It's very cruel. This kind of isolation closes off one's inner world. I worry that such situations may become more common.


Resonance and Enlightenment

"Zongsheng Question 2020: Dialogues with Life, Coexisting with the Future"

Throughout one's life, there will always be numerous joys and sorrows, partings and reunions, sudden challenges and setbacks. Especially when they come suddenly, catching us off guard, we lose our footing. How do we cope when unexpected sadness and stress strike? How do we navigate through them calmly? In the face of the global public health emergency brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic, Caixin Health invited artists, philanthropists, psychologists, and various professionals from different fields to share their personal experiences and observations. They discuss the perception of life, the liberation of the soul, and personal coping strategies. The goal is to hold hands in empathy, gain insight into life, face the unknown, and thrive in the sunshine.

[Theater Director: Cao Kefei]
Cao Kefei, a Chinese theater director, works and lives in Beijing and Berlin, Germany.

Cao Kefei has directed a series of interdisciplinary theater works in China and German-speaking countries, organized various international theater exchange projects, and participated in scriptwriting and translation between China and Germany. She has also edited books on contemporary theater. For many years, she has been committed to promoting theater exchange between China and German-speaking countries, hoping to foster the diversified development of theater. She believes that "a powerful and impactful theatrical work is not necessarily pleasing to the audience. On the contrary, it raises questions, lets various perspectives collide, makes people uncomfortable, and makes people realize their limitations, while also releasing the energy of collision. Therefore, the theater is an experimental field and energy field for our emotions, thoughts, actions, and attempts to change reality."

Tonight, there are no stars, and no wind or rain,
The darkness is like any other night in any year.
Was the great lament of the last century written on such a night?
Tonight, I don't want to think about significant human matters,
(Whenever I do, God laughs, even though I am still an atheist to this day)
I don't want to think about the recent shooting tragedy in a small German town,
Even though my daughter's tears have left me unsettled for a long time.
But tonight, I don't hope for the goddess of revenge to blow the horn,
Nor do I care whether the sun will rise as usual tomorrow.
Tonight, I can only stay quietly like this.

Excerpt from "Tonight"
Struggles and Energy
"Zongsheng Question 2020: The COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 disrupted the normal course of life and work. How has it affected your work and life during this period?"

Cao Kefei: I experienced two outbreaks of the pandemic during this time. I was in China from late January to late February, and then I returned to Berlin. Currently, I am still mostly in isolation. Most of my interactions have moved online. In Berlin, the performance group I am part of meets twice a week in a park for discussions, training, and rehearsals, but following government regulations, we are limited to groups of no more than three people.

In Germany, measures are taken in stages depending on the severity of the pandemic. Initially, experts provided various knowledge about the new coronavirus to the public. They updated us daily with information and offered consultations. The information was very transparent. As the situation worsened, the government imposed stricter isolation measures, such as initially canceling events with more than 500 people, which later reduced to gatherings of 200 people or more. When the situation became extremely severe in Italy, with a dramatic increase in deaths, Germany issued a ban, closing schools and theaters and suspending all gatherings. Simultaneously, the government warned young people not to gather, emphasizing the importance of protecting the elderly. If young people were to get infected in large numbers, it could overwhelm the hospitals, and the healthcare system might collapse. In other words, the government called on people to consider the well-being of others and take defensive measures.

I was also deeply moved by the fact that the government immediately introduced financial support policies for freelancers like me and some small businesses. Despite not being a German citizen, I was surprised to receive financial assistance on the second day of applying. The government constantly considers how to reassure people and enable everyone to overcome these challenging times.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: In your current state of working and living, have you encountered any difficulties?"

Cao Kefei: Nowadays, most of my work is done online, but I still prefer direct human interaction. Currently, during rehearsals with our theater group in Berlin, we do not shake hands or hug each other. This has given me a strange feeling, and I wonder if this isolation will change the nature of human relationships, including physical intimacy. Will it become more distant or perhaps stronger?

I was originally scheduled to participate in a theater festival's unit project in Müllheim, a city in North Rhine-Westphalia, where playwrights and translators from different countries gather to discuss the texts of the best German-language plays selected last year and watch theater performances based on these texts. Everything is now being discussed online, and the atmosphere is lost. Sometimes, I worry that I might become too reliant on the internet.

We know that the energy conveyed by art needs to be experienced in person. Online communication is more rational, and it lacks the same level of emotional impact, making it incomplete.

To alleviate these troubles, interacting with nature is one way. I go jogging almost every day, allowing my body and mind to find some peace in nature. Although my contact with people has been reduced, I now have more time to appreciate certain aspects of life. For example, cooking has become more interesting. Preparing meals is no longer a chore; it's a source of enjoyment.

Another aspect is self-isolation, which I call isolation from oneself. In the play "Fireface" by renowned German playwright Dea Loher, the story is based on a true incident. It tells the story of a teenage boy who cannot communicate with his parents at all. When his sister, the only person he is close to, gets a boyfriend, the boy isolates himself from the world. He stops going out and spends his days conducting various chemical experiments in his room. Later, he sets fire to his school classroom and a church. Finally, his parents take him to the police station. In the middle of the night, he kills them, sets the house on fire, and burns himself. It's a very cruel story. This kind of isolation shuts down one's inner world. I worry that such situations might become more common.

Resonance and Enlightenment
"Zongsheng Question 2020: You mentioned that in difficult times, theater gave you strength. What kind of strength is this?"

Cao Kefei: My thoughts on this have evolved since I last spoke about it. I believe that theater is a collective creative process. During this process, we interact with other creators, engage with the text, the body, and the space. Your focus is no longer solely on yourself; you see different perspectives, and your own focus shifts. Your individual self becomes more open, and you become more open-minded.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: You also mentioned that the theater, through play, games, and acting, stimulates people's imagination and thinking. Is this a form of artistic therapy?"

Cao Kefei: Art can indeed soothe people. I have had personal experiences and deep feelings regarding this. I work in theater, which involves interactions with different people. In this process, you expand your personal sorrows and challenges into a broader space, allowing you to face your own experiences with a certain distance. Play, games, and acting can be powerful forms of therapy. However, the current pandemic is not something that individuals can face alone. Its scale is so vast that it can only be addressed through government action to provide the conditions for people to lead secure lives. At such times, artistic therapy alone cannot address systemic and structural issues.

Artistic therapy requires time, and you need to give yourself enough time and space. It's a gradual process and cannot be rushed. Sometimes, it can be a moment of enlightenment, as the Chinese say. For example, a particular poem might deeply touch you, opening a part of your soul in an instant. I don't want to make it sound too mystical.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: Can we say that art, being inherently personal, allows individuals to resonate emotionally with it, leading to enlightenment or spiritual connection, which can result in emotional healing?"

Cao Kefei: Yes, art creation begins with the individual. For me, some works carry profound meaning, repeatedly touching and inspiring me. For instance, in literature, works like "The Brothers Karamazov" or Deleuze's "A Thousand Plateaus" contain substantial content that requires extensive reading. After several years, I may revisit them. I also enjoy reading poetry, such as the poems of Zhai Yongming or the poetry and critiques of Brodsky. During this pandemic, I reread Brodsky's long poem written in his twenties, "A Hymn to the Great City of John," which deeply resonated with my feelings. Inspired by this poem, I wrote my own poem, "Tonight." I also read Zhai Yongming's collection of poems, "Songs in the Dark Night," and a line from her poem struck me: "Introspective eyes, growing in many places." I watched the American TV series "Chernobyl," the film "Love in the Time of Cholera" by Gabriel García Márquez, and some films by the Italian Western master Sergio Leone. To watch "Chernobyl," I also read various historical materials related to the incident to gain a deeper understanding of what happened and how it led to such a significant disaster. This series had a profound impact on me.

New Insights
"Zongsheng Question 2020: During this period, what have your emotions been like, and have you gained any new insights?"

Cao Kefei: To be honest, during this period, feelings of sadness and anger were more dominant than my own fear for personal safety. After watching the "Chernobyl" series, I felt that history seems to be unfolding in a parallel manner, and I felt helpless, not knowing what I can do.

The current state of isolation feels like preparation for the future. I'm not sure why, but I sense that there are many unpredictable challenges waiting for us in the future. So, I'm testing myself, trying to maintain a relatively calm mindset in the face of such difficulties. I also remind myself not to view my own troubles as unique. We are all part of a community, and everyone is facing the same challenges. You must have a perspective that transcends the self.

The sudden arrival of this pandemic has made me feel the need to live in the present moment as fully as possible, be kind to those around me, and do my best in everything I do. I have realized that it is essential to make the most of the present moment to prepare for an uncertain future. When I go grocery shopping, I empathize with the cashier, understanding that their job can be tough, and I express my gratitude. Building more positive and friendly relationships between people in their daily lives is crucial, in my opinion.

From another perspective, the pandemic has slowed us down, giving us time and space to reflect on life, or, in broader terms, to contemplate existence. It allows us to perceive the present, including our relationships with others. It allows us to experience the pleasures of life. For instance, as I mentioned earlier, cooking has become more interesting. It is no longer a mere task. In this sense, the pandemic has brought some benefits.

The pandemic has also given me a new understanding of the human subject. It seems that we humans have always seen ourselves as superior, capable of conquering nature and everything else. However, with this pandemic, there is an invisible virus that has tethered us firmly. So, is it humans conquering it, or is it the virus conquering humans? We need to have more knowledge and reverence for nature.

Currently, I am involved in a theater production in Berlin titled "Unknown Planet" (working title). During rehearsals, we read books on astronomy, including those on the origin of the universe and the solar system within the Milky Way. It has piqued my interest in how vast our extraterrestrial world is, how much remains unknown. Apart from humans, how can we understand other forms of life and other galaxies? Humans seem truly insignificant in comparison. I am now more eager to learn and understand further.

I also feel the need to simplify my life. I have stopped using my car, and I plan to sell it. I have been decluttering and giving away items. For instance, when I finish reading a book, I give it to someone else. I have given away many clothes as well. I hope to simplify my material life. You might be surprised, but I used to drive a Jeep Cherokee for a long time in China, which consumed a lot of fuel. Now, I have a desire to strip away excess things from my life. I have reduced my consumption significantly. So, I don't have any impulse buying during the temporary closure of stores. Instead, I consider my purchases carefully before making them. This has led me to contemplate the relationship between people and material possessions.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: Is this a relationship where material possessions enslave individuals?"

Cao Kefei: Yes, it is harmful. Currently, when I come across something I like, I think it over and consider whether it's necessary. It may also be related to age.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: Will these thoughts influence your creative philosophy?"

Cao Kefei: I think they will. I believe that this life philosophy will subtly affect what I am currently working on. Life and creativity are inseparable.

About Happiness
"Zongsheng Question 2020: In 2010 and 2011, you participated in the "Discovering Happiness Journey" artistic project. Now, nearly a decade later, and having experienced a sudden event like this, how do you view the concept of the 'journey to discover happiness'?"

Cao Kefei: We worked on a project that spanned a year. We conducted research and interviews in Shenzhen, China, and created a work based on our findings. Instead of using existing texts or adaptations of novels, we explored materials from real life. The project aimed to reflect the rapidly changing landscape in China. I am still continuing with this approach in my work.

Regarding "discovering happiness," this concept is not particularly important to me. The word "happiness" has been used extensively by the media and has become a goal that everyone is expected to pursue. The idea of embarking on a journey to find happiness implies that there is a distant goal one must strive for. I don't believe in this imagination. The idea that your goal is somewhere in the future, and you must work towards it to finally achieve happiness, does not exist for me. Life's endpoint is death. What's important is to face the present moment and make the most of it because every moment connects the past and the future. The kind of present moment you have may shape your future.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: So, are you saying that, rather than setting an elusive goal for happiness in the future, it's better to experience the present moment with your body and mind? Using the word "goal" might not be entirely appropriate."

Cao Kefei: In essence, it means facing your current moment and doing well in what you are currently doing. Speaking of the word "happiness," it involves setting expectations for oneself, but many of these expectations are not self-determined; they are influenced by external factors. People should be fluid, escape, travel, and wander. As the saying goes, trees die while people move on, and I believe that individuals should not become like trees.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: Happiness is a highly subjective matter; each person has their own standard of happiness and their own source of happiness."

Cao Kefei: I have no such standards. I think one should not have standards, expectations, or comparisons.

About Globalization
"Zongsheng Question 2020: Is your current sense of composure related to being in Germany, where the situation is less tense?"

Cao Kefei: I live and work in both China and Germany and, to some extent, that has provided me with a different perspective, allowing me a bit of space and relaxation. I believe that artists need to have genuine emotions and impulses and conduct thorough research.

However, at the same time, I feel the limitations of artistic creation. Even if an artist's work has infinite possibilities, it depends on various external conditions to enter the public's view, such as funding, systems, and relationships, among others.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: What values do you respect and wish to instill in your family? How do you guide your children to adopt and adhere to them?"

Cao Kefei: Independence of thought, courage, patience, and empathy for others. In daily life, when you act and interact with others based on the values you respect, you often discuss various topics with your children openly and equally. Your daily actions reflect your values, and children are very perceptive.

"Zongsheng Question 2020: How do you view the future trajectory of 'globalization'?"

Cao Kefei: Disparities in wealth are a significant problem in the process of globalization. I hope that these disparities between countries and regions can be reduced. For example, in China and Germany, there are substantial cultural differences, but many wealthy Chinese individuals, when they come to Western countries, end up interacting primarily with wealthy Westerners. Even in Germany, there is a significant wealth gap. During the globalization process, if effective policies to counteract the global operation of capital and growing wealth inequality are not introduced, the rich will continue to get richer, and the poor will continue to get poorer. It becomes a situation where the rich become richer, and the poor become poorer. So, I am skeptical of globalization, and I hope that this pandemic prompts us to reflect on this issue. We need to reflect on the inequality caused by systems and capital, leading to poverty, bias, violence, and war. I hope there can be some change.

Regarding the future of globalization, we are now witnessing growing mistrust between different country systems, conflicts, and self-preservation tendencies. People have more time to reflect on previously unforeseen issues, which can lead to changes in political and economic decisions in the future.