Sun Min: You went to Switzerland in 1987 and moved to Beijing in 1997. Since we met in 1998, I have been following your theater work and have seen almost all the plays you directed in China. How did you get into theater?
Cao Kefei: When I went to Switzerland, I initially took on translation work and studied business administration for two years, but I found the studies boring. In 1991, a Swiss director who worked as a theater educator gathered a dozen people with diverse cultural backgrounds to explore Swiss reality through their personal experiences. It was a completely new approach at the time. I stayed in this (still existing) amateur theater group for about a year and a half. In the first year, we improvised based on the director's thematic and scenic guidelines, creating many interesting scenes. We practiced writing and performing scenic dialogues. The director gradually "stripped" us layer by layer until we were completely "naked" and had shed all our "acting." In the end, he pieced the individual scenes together like puzzle pieces. This process rekindled my deep love for theater that I had as a child; it gave me a medium to express myself.
You spent about ten years abroad. What did you find different in life and work when you returned to China?
I'm from Shanghai. I started my career as an independent theater artist in Beijing in 1998. Beijing was a foreign city to me at the time. People here are casual and can talk endlessly; they are guided by their emotions and do not place as much emphasis on order and precision as Shanghainese do. They are even less like the Swiss with their almost pedantic sense of organization and planning. In theater work, this negligence manifests as a lack of responsibility, a lack of concentration, tardiness to rehearsals, and unabashed use of mobile phones during rehearsals. In such moments, I long for discipline and precision.
In 2001, you staged Thomas Bernhard's 'The Power of Habit' in China. Why did you choose this play?
Bernhard's prose deeply moved me from the first reading. He likes to write long, complex sentences: a single sentence can easily fill a whole page, as if his language wants to overflow onto the paper. His sentences draw the reader into an unfathomable depth, but this descent imparts a feeling of strength. I was asked to direct a play by Bernhard as part of a symposium on his works from the University of Vienna and the University of Beijing. At that time, I was already familiar with some of his plays. Then I read 'The Power of Habit'; the play seemed just right to me, so I decided to translate it.
What prompted you to bring such a play to a Chinese stage? What does it have to do with Chinese societal and interpersonal reality?
The original German-language play deals with various conflicts that arise between a circus director and his artists in the tension between everyday reality and the pursuit of an ideal. In my adaptation of the play, I emphasized the inherent relationship between power and the collective, i.e., between ruling and being ruled, taming and being tamed. I involved acrobats in the performance and continuously staged certain ritualized routines, such as collective physical training, handstands, tightrope walking, and chanting slogans. These mechanisms immediately brought memories of the Cultural Revolution to the Chinese audience. Ideological restraint begins with the restraint of the body. The acrobatic performances gave the production a surreal and voyeuristic quality.
For the premiere in late 2001, I wrote in the program: 'Our nation is all too accustomed to juggling; all too accustomed to tightrope walking; all too accustomed to animal training; all too accustomed to clowning. Since our youth, we have become accustomed to hypocrisy, adaptation, compromises, self-deception, and deception by others.' I believe these words have not lost their validity, and everything that defines the characters in the play concerns us.
You translated, adapted, and directed this play yourself. Can you tell us about this creative process?
Translation involves exploring the meaning of words. For example, in the German title 'The Power of Habit,' the word 'power' can be translated into Chinese as 'quanli' (state or official power), 'liliang' (strength), or 'shili' (influence, strength). When choosing a word, one must consider the context and the overall content of the play. In this case, I chose the negatively connotated 'shili.' When translating, I try to preserve as much as possible of the stylistic and other peculiarities of the original text, whether it's the sound, punctuation, or sentence structure; everything must be retained in the translation. For example, the roundabout repetitions that characterize Bernhard's works should not be lost in the translation. However, when dealing with specific details, I follow Chinese expression conventions so that the translation reads smoothly. Only when editing the text for the production do I incorporate the ideas I have for the individual scenes.
The play was performed at the Beijing Children's Art Theater (Beijing Ertong Yishu Juyuan). I remember that the stage was very large and filled with heavy iron scaffolding. The set design had a somewhat oppressive quality; it made the actors appear mechanical and tiny. Was that the effect you intended?
Actually, I had a different set design in mind. I envisioned a scaffolding that could be disassembled like the makeshift stage of a small traveling circus. At a certain turning point in the performance, it could have been dismantled, leaving the stage completely empty. However, due to safety reasons, we needed a firmly anchored iron scaffold for the acrobatic acts and tightrope walking. But the fact that the characters appeared like puppets or props of this large iron scaffold on the vast stage, in my opinion, fit the production.
In 2003, the Goethe-Institut Beijing and the Lin Zhaohua Studio jointly organized a theater week for German-speaking countries. On this occasion, you directed Marius von Mayenburg's 'Face on the Fire.' The play tells a true story about the cruelty of coming of age. The performance at the Experimental People's Art Theater Beijing (Beijing Renyi Shiyan Juchang) garnered significant attention at the time. Can you tell us about working on this play?
'Face on the Fire' is supposedly based on a true story. An eighteen-year-old boy who lives in his own mental world enjoys playing with fire. He loves his older sister. Filled with disgust for a world full of clichés, he avoids his parents, with whom he cannot communicate. When his sister has a boyfriend, she distances herself from her brother, who becomes increasingly withdrawn. To free himself, he sets a fire in the church and in his own classroom and eventually, in a fit of rage, kills his parents. I often feel that once we grow up, the world of imagination that once gave us wings becomes weary. The play reminds us of our own coming of age and presents our current selves in the middle of life. During rehearsals, I read with great shock a handwritten farewell letter in the Beijing Evening News. The letter writer was a boy who had repeatedly suffered punishment and abuse in school. I thought to myself: How could this happen?
For the staging, I used photographs of children from poor families in rural China who had set fires and were punished by the state. I hung these pictures on a makeshift wall made of wooden planks that circled the stage. On the planks, the wall was covered with black and white photos of real fires. This set piece expressed the idea that one's own inner fire can ultimately lead to an external fire. When the protagonist suddenly screams and throws his arms out to the side, a large wooden plank falls, and the photos slide onto the stage. This effect made the photos seem like his memories.
The performance was first staged at the Experimental People's Art Theater. This was also the first time you worked with this theater. Why did you choose this stage?
At the time, I was friends with Lin Zhaohua, and he had invited me to work together. I knew that this play would only be successful if I had full artistic freedom and could realize my own ideas. Lin Zhaohua gave me complete freedom to make my own artistic decisions, and he offered valuable input when I asked for it. We worked well together.
During the performance, the character played by Zhang Bo was almost naked, with only a pair of underpants. There was a lot of controversy about that in the audience and among colleagues. What was your intention?
The idea to have the character almost naked came from my observation that some young people who had committed suicide or crimes were found dead in their homes, dressed only in underwear. This image haunted me for a long time. It is an expression of helplessness, despair, and protest. I wanted to include this aspect in the production. If we dress up in pretty clothes, we are dressed up for others. But if we wear only underpants, we are dressed down for ourselves. It's like peeling off layers of clothing, and eventually, all that's left is our true self.
In 2007, you adapted and directed 'Don Quixote,' a piece by Russian director Valery Fokin. The story of 'Don Quixote' is well-known, but Fokin's version is less familiar to the Chinese audience. Can you tell us about this production?
When I first saw 'Don Quixote' at the Theater Festival in Moscow in 2006, I was deeply moved. This version of 'Don Quixote' is very different from the classic version by Miguel de Cervantes. In the original, Don Quixote is a former nobleman who is gradually driven mad by the chivalric romances he has read. In Fokin's adaptation, Don Quixote is portrayed as an old man who has become senile and is sent to a nursing home by his daughter. There, he becomes the hero of the nursing home's residents and reenacts his chivalric adventures with them.
In Fokin's production, the actors played not only their own roles but also performed other characters through puppetry. This blending of reality and fantasy was very impressive. When I returned to China, I wanted to adapt and stage 'Don Quixote' in a similar way. I invited a Russian puppetry expert, Anatoly Filatov, to work with us on the production. In our version, Don Quixote and Sancho Panza are puppets controlled by actors, which adds an extra layer of complexity to the performance.
The play was performed in Chinese at the Beijing People's Art Theater (Beijing Renyi Meishu Juyuan). What was the audience's reaction to the production?
The audience's reaction to 'Don Quixote' was mixed. Some people loved it and found it deeply moving, while others found it confusing and hard to follow. It's not a traditional narrative play, and it requires the audience to engage with the symbolic and surreal elements of the production. Some people may have been expecting a more straightforward adaptation of Cervantes' novel, and our version took a more experimental and abstract approach.
Overall, I think it was a valuable experience to bring Fokin's vision of 'Don Quixote' to a Chinese audience and introduce them to a different interpretation of the story.
After directing 'Don Quixote,' you returned to Switzerland for a while. What made you decide to go back?
I returned to Switzerland for personal reasons and also to explore new creative opportunities. Switzerland has a vibrant theater scene, and I wanted to reconnect with the theater community there and collaborate on new projects. It was a chance to gain fresh perspectives and experiences that would enrich my work as a theater director.
During your time in Switzerland, you directed 'Oresteia' at the Theater an der Winkelwiese in Zurich. What drew you to this classic Greek tragedy?
'Oresteia' is a monumental work in the history of theater, and it addresses fundamental themes of justice, vengeance, and the transition from a cycle of violence to a system of laws. The story of Orestes and the House of Atreus is a timeless and universal one, and I was drawn to the opportunity to bring it to the stage in a contemporary context.
In our production, we explored the theme of justice in a society where power and corruption often prevail. The story of Orestes' trial and the Furies' pursuit of vengeance resonates with contemporary issues of accountability and moral ambiguity. I wanted to challenge the audience to reflect on these themes and their relevance to our own lives.
You collaborated with a Swiss-Chinese cast for 'Oresteia.' How did this collaboration influence the production?
Working with a diverse cast that included both Swiss and Chinese actors brought a rich array of perspectives to the production. It was a truly international collaboration that allowed us to explore the themes of 'Oresteia' from different cultural angles. The fusion of Eastern and Western theatrical traditions and sensibilities added depth and complexity to the production.
Overall, the collaboration with the cast was a rewarding and enriching experience. We had to navigate language and cultural differences, but it ultimately enhanced the creative process and the final presentation of the play.
In recent years, you have directed several productions in Switzerland and China, including 'The Fire Raisers,' 'Medea,' and 'Agamemnon.' How do you choose the plays you want to work on?
The choice of plays I want to work on is driven by a combination of factors. I look for plays that resonate with me personally and offer an opportunity to explore complex and meaningful themes. I also consider the cultural and social relevance of a play in the context of the audience it will be presented to.
Additionally, I am drawn to plays that challenge traditional conventions and allow for innovative approaches to storytelling and staging. I enjoy pushing the boundaries of theater and experimenting with different theatrical forms and techniques.
Collaboration with a dedicated and talented team of actors, designers, and technicians is also a key factor in my decision-making process. Theater is a collaborative art form, and the people I work with play a crucial role in bringing a production to life.
As a theater director, what do you hope to achieve with your work?
As a theater director, my primary goal is to create thought-provoking and emotionally resonant productions that engage and inspire audiences. I believe that theater has the power to reflect and illuminate the complexities of the human experience, and I aim to use this medium to explore fundamental questions about society, morality, and the human condition.
I also hope to foster cross-cultural exchange and understanding through my work, as I often collaborate with artists from different cultural backgrounds. By bringing together diverse perspectives and artistic traditions, I hope to contribute to a more interconnected and empathetic world.
Ultimately, I aspire to continue pushing the boundaries of theater and exploring new possibilities for storytelling and artistic expression. Theater is a dynamic and ever-evolving art form, and I want to be at the forefront of its evolution, challenging conventions and creating innovative and impactful productions."